Forum alternatives?

Satchi wrote: Kunena is open source which is amazing & powerful. However they do not make development based on customers needs.

They are looking at depreciating the blue eagle template. The new one they are moving to (Crypsys) does not work with my template and I don't want to relearn templating it because they want to make sweeping changes.

That is just one reason. Another is that when there are bugs or issues, they are quite rude to people. I am afraid to ever ask for help or direction there after seeing how they treat people; and frankly, I would rather pay for a product than deal with such haphazard support.

I would like to be able to choose an alternative.

best to you,

Satchi

Yuk for community support.
Responding to support questions is a huge challenge and at times responses do come out harse and cold. But people should never be intentionally rude.

Thinking that the fact that the Kunena project is basically totally non-commercial could be a factor in this as the insentives are not as strong and motivating.

I also agree that finding a native Joomla forum would be the best approach if possible.

If your issue is mostly template related you should really invsst in a template designer to make something that works for you.

nant wrote: Yuk for community support.
Responding to support questions is a huge challenge and at times responses do come out harse and cold. But people should never be intentionally rude.

Thinking that the fact that the Kunena project is basically totally non-commercial could be a factor in this as the insentives are not as strong and motivating.

I also agree that finding a native Joomla forum would be the best approach if possible.

If your issue is mostly template related you should really invsst in a template designer to make something that works for you.

I have a lot of empathy for people who give support (online and in face to face jobs) It is a thankless, exhausting job a lot of the time.

I wish that or the 'template' was my only issue. I won't go into many details here because I refuse to bash a company or group of people who are obviously trying to do something great... however...

My issues are much larger than a mere depreciated template or rude support; and these issues will effect everyone else here who uses Kunena as it continues forward.

They have been shoving major changes into the code updates 4.1, 4.2 etc with no review of plans, stuff just appears and when it's broken, they let it be or remove it ham fistedly and then patch another increment on. 4.03, 4.04. Some of those incremental updates have had major changes that should have been held, tested and released as a full release cycle, imho.

Seeing this type of cowboy coding makes me nervous about the future of the product. The incremental releases came very quickly, which usually means less testing. I know I am active there and I didn't see any discussion about a lot of the changes -- and, that's fair. It is a community created/supported product.

It makes me nervous to use it for anything beyond a 'hobby' board though and as a person who is responsible for making the choices for our site, that is my job. Weigh options, test, decide and then live with those decisions.

I know most people here use Kunena and they are happy. I'm not slamming them, I am saying I see a large red flag waving in front of my face and wouldn't mind moving on to calmer waters before everything hit the rocks.

To be clear, my site and forums run fine right now. I have templates that work and am 'happy enough' but these knee jerk changes with little warning and patch patch patch cycles are starting to worry me.

and.. I wrote a book, even though I didn't go deeply into all the concerns I see with Kunena.

best always,

Satchi

[mod note: moved discussion out of Professional forums so other kunena users can comment]

Hi Satchi,

I'm sorry to read, that you have some concerns about our component.
I would like to hear why you are having some concerns about kunena.

About our release cycle:
We want do a release every 3/4 months after each release. Only we haven't done that for K4.0.x releases, because we trying to fix many old issue's as possible. Kunena is more stable then ever.

But I would like you why we have released so many builds.

The first Release we have that on May 31 2015 = Normal release
Second release, Jun 10 2015 = Fixes many bugs we have received from the public
Third release, June 26 2015 = Security Release
Fourth release, Jun 29 2015 = We had reverted a fix. Because shared webhosts/bad host company hadn't added the php module.
Fifth release, August 16 2015 = Normal release
And our last release, Aug 17 2015 = Fix 1 big feature, upload avatar.
But the next version will be released in end of October, if there no security issue.

Our Support:
The last year, we see a large drop of questions. We only see more customizing work. We are open for requests new features.

Roadmap:
This weekend we shall do a new announcement about the upcoming changes in K5.0.

small overview:
- Removing php 5.3 support
- Removing < Joomla 4.3.3 support
- Blue eagle/ none hmvc templates will be deprecated, and no longer working on K5.0
- On K5.0 there will be 3 templates included: Crypsis (Bootstrap 2) & CrypsisB3 (Bootstrap 3) and a new one based on his own framework. So that version will be working on all Joomla templates.
- Release K5.0 Q3/Q4 2015
- End Support K4.0 Q4 2015, only security fixes until the end of the year.


Why we are dropping many things:

1) Security.

Our number 1 answer. Many custom kunena templates has many xss and sql security holes. We added more security layers on the HMVC layouts. For example our lasted 2 xss vulnerables where only accessible on the old kunena template system. Not on our new hmvc layouts.

2) Support Joomla.

Now that J2.5 is end of life we can drop J1.6/J1.7/J2.5/J3.1/J3.2/J3.3 support. So no longer supporting multiple Joomla versions, this will gave us more speed and less code. But also give us less bugs.

3) Speed.

Less code is less checks. So the code will speed up 1.5x time.

I hope your concerns are gone. If you have more questions, you could create a new topic on our forum.

Regards,

Jelle (810)

Kunena Team

Ok. I understand now why the thread was moved.

Thank you for answering it. I really was simply asking other CB members if they knew of alternatives so I could do my research. Now, this has become an 'all about Kunena' thread.

I suggest you post your detailed and inspiring message on your forums or front page. It is by far the best explanation I have seen anywhere of your plans and the reasons for the fast changes.

I do still have my own concerns but I feel better about the direction of your development after reading you very detailed (again, thank you for the time you took) explanation.

You said you are open to suggestions and that you have seen a drop in support requests

Our Support:
The last year, we see a large drop of questions. We only see more customizing work. We are open for requests new features.

I believe you are seeing a drop in support requests (at least in part) because people are not willing to post on your forums anymore. They are contentious and for someone new to Kunena, can be an ugly experience. For myself, an old hand, it isn't worth the frustration and snarky baloney. I'm busy, and I get irritated with the signal to noise ratio. (could be just me... maybe it isn't bothering anyone else, I don't know)

In terms of requests, as far back as 2009 while working on another project, I (and many others) asked for the ability to plug in or use a wysiwyg editor. If not that, then at the least the ability to craft the editing toolbar without having to touch core (we can now with css overrides, but it's ugly) -- that is one example of something core and useful we still don't have.

I can think of several other items, but this is not the place. I will go look at what votes you have open for features currently.

We both know, forums are the heart of any community and the ability to style them to our community needs is critical. If the new templates must be used for security, (which would be a great reason) then I ask humbly that you document them well in the wiki. Most documentation is completely out of date and frustrating to use as a resource.

Before closing this I want to say again, thank you. You didn't have to come here, create an account and respond. You did. That shows how much you care.

None of this was meant as Kunena bashing. I know how hard everyone is working on it and it really is an awe inspiring program, especially when you consider how it has developed.

My job is to do the best I can for my community. (It's 100% selfish, in a way) It doesn't matter how much I think Kunena is cool, or how much I like you. I have to look dispassionately at all options and to the best of my ability, decide which has the best features, stability and functionality (front and back-end). Long term viability and stability, customization ability, documentation. All those factors go into it and more.


best regards,

Bridgette (Satchi)

Satchi wrote: They have been shoving major changes into the code updates 4.1, 4.2 etc with no review of plans, stuff just appears and when it's broken, they let it be or remove it ham fistedly and then patch another increment on. 4.03, 4.04. Some of those incremental updates have had major changes that should have been held, tested and released as a full release cycle, imho.

I admit that I have been very quiet on this forum about Kunena for a long time but, on this point, I am in total agreement.

From a project management perspective, minor dot-point releases should only contain fixes for problems with functionality or security concerns and should not introduce new features (particularly if there is only one person who is testing these things before they are released to the general community).

I don't want to fuel the debate here about products or quality support from other software developers. People should be able to discuss those things using the support mechanisms provided at the websites where they obtain such products. However, a couple of comments in this topic are worth noting.

One striking fact about this website is that it uses Kunena (albeit K 3.0.x) and it's curious that the developers have not updated the forum software here for a few years. So, before people judge the merits of K 4.0 it would perhaps be better to consider them by first looking into a mirror.

Jelle Kok (810 on this forum) has written a broad roadmap/plan outlining the immediate future of Kunena and it's worth taking a look at his article. I have written my own commentary on this plan together with a other observations I've made about the status of the project over the past year or more.

Having made these points, I suspect people have already formed their own conclusions about what what other alternatives are available. If people have genuine concerns about Kunena, however, then I suggest they use the appropriate forum to air those concerns.

Thanks